Is It A Social Club Or A Local Church?

#20 There has been a trend on being church friendly among spirit filled groups dress anyway you desire get the people in and get them out no prophesy, no healing of the sick, no body life you only hear from the band and speaker it normally consist of 20 minutes of praise singing, 30 minutes of teaching or motivational speaking offerings and announcements. Should this be considered a local church or a social club with good works?

Answers

David R Huskins I think people will go where they are accepted and feel comfortable UNTIL they learn to be led where to go by Holy Spirit. I know God can use any place for a season in someones life especially if what they need most is social involvement. For me I am most at home in a place where presence is manifested and Holy Spirit is allowed to flow freely. So I personally am not interested in altering where I am at home to allow people to feel more at home than HIM. I want HIM to be at home in my midst. So that is my passion but I am glad there are places for people to get their “social fix” while they develop a hunger for more and a hunger for transformation.

David R Huskins If we recognize that the church can be in a cathedral, or storefront, home group, or jail cell then I have to assume it can also be in these settings but the question is really can one grow and mature beyond social life in this setting…I doubt it. But also think it could be a call for those of us who are only consumed with gifts, presence, worship, and word to realize just how much many are needing social activity. So maybe we can somehow find away to each bless the other.

H Scott Stimson I think the local church should pattern herself after the heavenly church meaning that is our standard. We are one body in a specific location every culture and nation would be diverse yet the same as the body of Christ, I think in an ideal way there should be all of the body of Christ in a city meeting from house to house and then come together into one place and give of their time talent and treasure for the advancement of the Kingdom of God in the earth, they worship commune hear instruction and teaching from leaders that being ministry gifts and functional gifts we should also be ministering daily as the church to those who are without to the poor, those on the streets, healing the sick leading people to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and we should do this as a body. As the church we should be submitted fully to the headship of Jesus with sign wonders and miracles we should have deep love but a holy respect for the Lordship of Jesus Christ and honor those he has sent to us which is for our our spiritual growth. everyone should be doing the work of the ministry.

Donald W Lewis 

Unfortunately or fortunately, as you grow in spirit. The social outlets, such as bars and clubs lose their interest and the church or church groups become your social place. I think churches keeping it so formal turn more away in today’s society than attracts. Christians should feel more socially accepted at church than in the world. Do I feel some traditions should be kept? Yes, although I also feel the church should continue to grow with the times as well. The message doesn’t change but the generations do.

Roger Hutchins Scott, I am concerned that we are in a time when church leaders find it more profitable to feed the soulish rather that the spirit man. The emphasis has gone from building the spirit man and maturing the saints to simply growing greater numbers. The hunger and thrust for righteousness has been spoiled, much like eating junk food spoils ones apatite for real food, junk food preaching spoils the apatite for words of Spirit and Life. May we once again hunger for a life giving flow that will cause signs to follow.

  • Stephanie King Social club….and 99% don’t even have the good works to go along. But they do have great gourmet coffee you can drink while in service! Lol :0D

    Jonathan Rutledge I really don’t feel it has anything to do with dress anyway you desire to get the people in. I really do feel that many of the so called church places has become the norm of same ole singers and preachers at conferences its like you scratch my back I scatch yours. Not saying that these churches are bad because great things are happening but I do feel like they have become a social club. While there are great preachers and singers, there are still preachers and singers that may not be of the status quoa that has something to say or offer.

  • Denise Parkison God is on a schedule these days . . .must be out on time. . . must beat the crowd to lunch. move, move, move the second service is about to begin!

  • Pamela Stallworth been there, done that. Church is changing now

  • Melinda Nelson I always thought it was the offerings first.
  • Moses Iyobhebhe It’s a social Church with local club membership. Pressure Cooker style, boil over, but offends no one nor the devil.
  • Joel Thornhill I hear some churches offset this with life groups where they focus on the more meaningful tasks of meeting the needs of the people outside the traditional service thing. Not agreeing with your preface Scott, but others find a way to have their cake and eat it too. Church should have substantive purposes first. Doing that by which Christ instilled us to do above all things. But if your family is the church then there is no harm in enjoying one another socially. We can’t be too stiff. It could be at your next pot luck dinner that a guest may find their way to Christ. Sounds like old time gucky churchy saying that, but hey, so what.
  • Lori Zwirecki Craine WE HAVE GONE TO BARS TO HEAR OUR FRIEND’S BAND PLAY AND WE ALL STATED AFTERWORDS THAT WE JSUT HAD CHURCH! WE WERE SO BLESSED IN FELLOWSHIPING WITH BELIEVERS & NON BELIEVERS! HIS BODY SHOWS UP WHERE EVER WE DO, WE BRING CHRIST WITH US!
  • Rocky Walker Scott I wish you quit holding back and asked some questions that would cause everyone to think.
  • Rocky Walker Social club with good works!!! Come on Scott say what you really mean! lol
  • H Scott Stimson LOL add some to it Rocky I have 5 more to go..
  • Loving Unity church and healing and love are wherever the people are…and they assemble in the Silent Presence, whether on a hillside with Jesus or by a river with Lydia or in homes, breaking bread. God is in us, not in buildings built with hands. So, wherever the Lights of God are gathered in Spirit, this is where the healing is and the realization is that I and my Father are one. All else is ego’s organization–i.e. antichrist. The answer is neither of those are church.
  • Ruth Sutterfield we are the church the living temple of God and i believe that politics, usery, favortism of the wealthy does not belong in the church no more than gossip,judgementalism ,or fake doctrines. If you are going to cuss ,smoke , drink,gossip,or any of the other deadly sins then what separates you from the rest of the world .I believe it says in the bible that we are to separate ourselves and become wholly before man and God
  • Ruth Sutterfield so true buildings, having the biggest congregation, the largest income, and being the biggest people pleaser seems to be more important than the spirit of God being in amongst his people
  • Marilyn Woods · Friends with Rita Smith and 13 others

    amen!!!! It is not about numbers!!!!

What About Corruption And Accountability In Church Leadership?

There is and has always been corruption in church leaders, such as abuse of money, sexual sins infidelity, drug use, arrogance refusing to listen to anyone, the continued party life but no real care for the people, the I’m right your wrong shut up type thing or your cursed.. How do we bring in accountability to our leaders that is pure honest and restorative for those who have fallen, and provide things honest in the sight of men?

Answers

David R Huskins To me accountability has to be desired by the one needing it more than something that can be brought to them. I do know this all become accountable in time by their own choices…either willingly or by decisions that force accountability. So for me I desire it and therefore submit to those in my life that I believe God has placed for the purpose of accountability so that I can hopefully be spared from being forced to accountability by wrong choices. Prevention is better than treatment but I have witnessed repeatedly that God does bring us all to accountability one way or the other so I am not overly concerned with those who refuse it … HE will handle it. I just recommend people willingly submit themselves and save all a lot of heartache/heartbreak. Submission/accountabiltiy in the bonds of mutual love and respect are liberating not bondage.

Tony Pannell I agree with the statement above, but one problem I have seen over the years is, The people have submitted to pastors, those that call themselves apostles (not saying that some aren’t) but those in leadership have not submitted to anyone. To often we have seen the fall of leaders whether it was a sex scandal, abuse of money or abuse of authority, ect.. I have known people who could not make a financial decision in their life without asking the permission or advice from their pastor. I know this is extreme to some people (I pray that most never had to endure this kind of leadership) but I know many ministers with this attitude. They teach they are the husband of the church and the people (the wife) should submit to their authority without question! This teaching is more prevalent than people know. No accountability for the money given. People are taught not to question them, that they were called of God and are not accountable to any man! I have seen so many people who submitted with a true heart and humble attitude to be destroyed by this kind of abusive leadership. All will ultimately be accountable to God and have to answer for their actions. Sometimes with good intentions, good people submitting to leadership, find them selves in bondage. I am not saying we shouldn’t have mentors and fathers that we submit to and respect for their teachings and learning from their years of experience and knowledge. This is needed and vital to the church. Its a subject that brings up many questions. How do we bring a proper balance? How do we bring change? What authority should leaders have? Who are they accountable to? the list goes on and on. I know these are some of the questions Scott has brought up. We need help!!! That is where a great move of the Spirit is needed in the church and among the leadership to bring change, so people don’t have to suffer under a corrupt leadership who they submitted to for years think they were obeying God. I know so many people who trusted leaders and have spent years trying to learn to trust again. I know we are not to trust in man! But many have submitted their hearts and lives to leaders who have taken from them and wounded them deeply. I believe in leadership but, I believe there needs to be a lot of changes in the church and in the leadership. Just saying. Really don’t won’t to offend anyone. Just my thoughts.

Lori Zwirecki Craine YES SOME LEADERS WHO DEMANDED COMPLETE OBEDIENCE TO THEMSELF, HAD NO ACCOUNTABILITY TO ANYONE BUT THEMSELF, THIS HATH BEEN ONE OF MY CHURCH EXPERIENCE, SORT OF CULTISH, SOME HAVE STATED AS THEY FEARFULLY LEFT.

Cindy Ledford I think it is as much the congregation as the leaders. We should not expect any more from the leader than we do ourselves. They are flesh and blood just like everyone else. If they are treated as deity, without fault, then they may begin to think of themselves as being that. If you have a leader that will not allow a member to question them or accept advise because they “know it all.” Then run…

Cathi Cannon It seems to me that this type of leadership continues to exist, virtually unchecked, because people keep flocking in to their arenas to sit under them. If I may say so, I think this occurs for much the same reasons a person chooses to stay with an abusive spouse: low self esteem; fear of the unknown, (“What would I do if I left?”); poor or non-existant coping skills; inability/unwillingness to accept personal responsibility. In this case, basically, absence of a personal relationship with God – which the abusive leadership continues to block from them. A vicious circle that needs to be broken from both sides.

Kimberly King I have seen what it can do. God forgives but sometimes I think it is hard for some to forgive themselves. Being in leadership is such an awesome responsibility. Just knowing that I have to answer to God in Judgement as the mother of my three children is frightening enough, much less the souls of hundreds and thousands. As I have read your questions and have been so thrilled to hear you address the various subjects. I think of the life and ministry of Billy Graham and the constant messages he has brought to the Church over the years. Wish you were pastoring a church in these parts! Place would be packed out.

Jimmy Huggins It’s the wording I guess. Meaning we don’t go to church we assemble the church. All for Sunday morning services Sunday evening anytime we can assemble and get saved healed reconciled or what ever while we are together wherever we are gathered just saying the building ain’t the church it’s a place the church meets

Ronald Smith When we Know/see Him {Christ} who is the truth, we will not settle for the false. The Gospel we present must be Him and not man centered. May God the Father reveal His Son in us. I John 3:2 BUT WE KNOW THAT WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; FOR WE SHALL SEE HIM AS HE IS. What image are we beholding?

  • Jim Taylor Maybe our paradigm for leadership needs changed?

  • Robin Argyle I think that all of us, not just church leaders, need people around us that love us and will tell us the truth. Accountability is important for each of us, but especially for leadership. I do not like the idea of one minister criticizing another minister. Accountability should come from WITHIN the ministry and be done by those who have walked with that individual, and know and understand the vision that God has given them…Just my opinion…LOL…

  • Rocky Walker All leaders, all people, must want a heart change, that is where it all begins. I must make myself first accountable to the Lord, He is the only one who can make me pur

  • Joseph Dutton As leaders we must know that we are to be lead SERVANTS….with a heart that must be broken and refashioned by Jesus himself….when we submit to His authority then we have true authority….The authority we have in leading others only comes when we do exactly what the old hymn says…”Trust and Obey for there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey”. When we do that then we will not lead lives of excess but in love we will be willing to BE Jesus to those in need fashioned into His image.J

  • Tony Pannell Jesus sent the disciples out by 2 to spread the word. Most of our churches are lead or ran by one man. Even churches that have Elders often times have YES MEN! As was mentioned above, (ACCOUNTABILITY). Plurality of ministry will create a system of accountability. Not a one man show with no checks and balances. Temptation is a strong weapon used by the enemy and will ensnare even strongest people if the situation is right. (lust, greed, pride, ect..) Sometimes an attitude of I deserve more because, I have sacrificed so much or I deserve more money for all I have done. ECT..ECT.. When there is accountability to others and people with whom the leaders can be open and transparent with those around them, a lot of pit falls can be diverted. But it will take men and women who are willing to open up and become transparent to others. Not always an easy thing to let others see who you are or what your struggles are but, that is what it takes to be accountable. That is why I believe there is a need for plurality in leadership. Accountability, Transparency, These are needed to ensure Integrity is maintained in leadership. As was mentioned above, Servants!! The leadership of the church needs to realize and never forget they were called to be Servants, not Dictators or Tyrants telling the people what to do. A servant ask what can I do to serve you not, how can you serve me. This is not an easy thing thing for many to do. Humility, openness, honesty and becoming transparent for others to see! But without accountability, the things mentioned in the Question laid out for us by Scott will always be the down fall of many! Regrettably.

How Should The Church Handle Marketing Groups?

#18 a 3 part ? Should the church allow MLM groups to market among the congregation or discuss investment opportunities openly with the church? Should the church protect its more wealthier members from those who want to borrow money from them?

Answers

David R Huskins well I am glad we have the mention of wealthy members because I think it is wonderful to know we are not all poor nor should we want it to be where we are all poor. I think the asset the wealthy among can make is the wisdom on how they got there if it was gained honestly. I think ethically we have to be careful on allowing marketing groups in to promote and sell unless there is a clear 100% full disclosure of all interest, investments, and some sort of financial integrity statement verified by an outside party.

 

  • Heather Laffitte On allowing the MLM groups to market in the church — absolutely NOT! I cannot think of a faster way to drive away people who are annoyed by MLMarketers. I say this as a person who, despite my best efforts to avoid these people, was once cornered in my own home by a friend who knew I would be too polite to ask her to leave. For at least 2 hours, she prodded me about whether I was satisfied with my career as an attorney and tried to convince me that I should start a new “career” selling makeup and skin care products instead. If these people were constantly cornering me in a church or ever speaking from the pulpit, I would never go back to that church..

    David R Huskins I as a whole have encouraged people to be trained in investing and marketing etc but don’t encourage so much the investing and marketing be done in and through the church as much as the education on how to be done in the church. Let the actual doing be done through wise searching and education and relationship building of individuals. I witnessed a ministry invite people to invest large sums of $ into a “television ministry that was on the market” only to learn it was never on the stock market at all and the stocks were no good and most of them were sold from pulpits. In our state there are two different pastors in court now for encouraging the purchase of investments from what appeared to be “God’s answer for poverty” firms that turned out to be illegitimate. One must be absolutely sure that an investment is real to encourage that in a public setting. Thus why I discourage it but encourage the training and information on how to invest wisely.

    Marilee Osborn We are the church, we assemble ourselves together to praise and worship the Lord. We are to be examples to those the Lord brings across our path on the love of God, not attempting to run their lives, and coming up with a program to try to manage everyone’s life. God is very capable of training up his own children and providing for them, and he will speak to those he wants to carry out his plans. Man’s institutionalized system has failed for God was not in it. But God is arising out of each vessel in spite of man’s feeble efforts to control everything.


  • Gregg Wilson should there be……a membership?
  • Pamela Stallworth I think as a church, we are family. There should be opportunity for people to sell to others. Not during church, but there should be a time when it could be available. They sell books and other articles in the bookstore, what’s the difference? I would much rather support people in my church if they are selling something I need or want than going to someone outside of church. ie Art, Essential Oils, Video’s, Books. etc.
  • Straightened Paths Interesting point Scott. I currently am on extended visit to a church where there seems a lot of really poor people. It is hard to make friends when you know before hand that if you invite others out to lunch you have to be ready to treat. Kinda gets old too. Also funny how most of the poor folks I know in church are the ones who adhere to Word of Faith doctrine.
  • Cindye Coates · I THINK OPEN FULL DISCLOSURE is THE BEST POLICY! The Secrets and Hidden Agendas are what makes people feel violated and targeted…. WE do not allow PREDATORY tactics from anyone – Including the leadership!!!
  • Cindye Coates · Faith principles are awesome when taught properly…. I was one who greatly benefited from teachings by my dear friend TL Osborn!

Social Media And The Church?

#17–Social media is changing everything around us including the church, people put everything up here we are now by design monitored at the will of those who desire to monitor us. The question is should the church have counseling and recovery ministry for online and Facebook addictions seeing it is the cause of great blessing and or great pain.

 

Answers

  • Jim Taylor Yes. Sign me up. But make sure I have time to post updates about the counseling

  • David R Huskins I wasn’t addicted till these questions started…will you pay for my counseling?

  • David R Huskins I think for me one thing I have been personally dealt with is to ONLY USE social media for what is good and uplifting. But to the question I understand there are several ministries that do indeed offer counseling and recovery for FB addictions and even if not addicted it does behoove us all from time to time to remember to take a break from computer and cyber world and live some time in the human world.

  • Jim Taylor We have those imposed upon us David … by power outages .. the internet crashing and not working for several days … it’s good for us.

  • Amanda Garner I honesty think addiction to anything is only a symptom of a deeper issue. I have personally unfriended and lost respect for ministry who blasted my newsfeed and personal page with unwelcome political mess. Someone please teach the generations before mine how to use social media. lol

  • Shannon Galon Totally with Bishop David R Huskins on this one…. These questions could turn us into junkies!!

     

What Do We Do About The Political divide In the Church Among Races?

#15–Especially In the USA the church is divided politically across racial lines blacks and whites. How will the church address this division and speak truth to the core issues and root causes? will we just go back to pretending it isn’t there and hope it goes away or will we openly address it in wisdom and love? Where are the bridge builders? and who and where are the sources of division racially?

Answers

David R Huskins Having been a campaign director for both democrats and republicans and of course having been a pastor of a multi-cultural church I have determined that corruption is on both sides of the political isle and that racism is real and alive and exists in both communities mentioned. The antidote for me in dealing with race is GRACE. Having grace to forgive history, and having grace to recognize that both sides carry ideas and wounds from history that have no place in the present. We will heal the political divide when we discover that there is no “righteous” political party. There are only righteous positions. If we support the human race as our main race we will begin the movement forward and treat all equally. Grace must also be used to recognize the hidden racism in our own hearts. Politically we lose crediability when we side with either party because BOTH parties have an agenda that is contradictory to the agenda of the Kingdom of God. Support positions that we can but refuse to be divided from our brother over a failing system. LOVE STILL CANNOT FAIL…

David R Huskins I have a family that is culturally diverse and becoming more diverse and a church that is very diverse…when the election was going on I determined to talk about ISSUES that affect ALL but recognize neither party nor candidate had the real solutions only the Kingdom could do that.

Ronald Smith Jesus bridged the gap.The church needs the revelation that there is only ONE MAN, CHRIST RISEN, and we as believers have been put into Him. Division comes because we lack the vision of this ONE NEW MAN, THE CORPORATE MAN CHRIST IN WHOM AND WHOSE WE ARE. He abolished all other identifications or distinctions at the cross.

Rita Smith Preach the kingdom their is no race except the New creation

  • RicknMary Claeson Here in Austin we have more and more black pastors looking for all races to attend their church, hopefully through prayer we can claim all.
  • Roy Storkson will we openly address it in wisdom and love? Yes!!
  • Diana Snyder Hester Man and politics cause division with their own personal agendas. Jesus and His truth are the only bridge builders.
  • Diana Snyder Hester However, if you choose to follow a man instead of the Messiah, you will most certainly be led astray.
  • Djc Csada …how can the eye say to the foot we have no need of you ….? We are all the same flesh should one hope to see unity in the body of Christ? hopeful we will soon. I believe in preferring one another.
  • Diana Snyder Hester Remember, Jesus said a number of things will be the sign of His coming and one of them is great deception will abound to the extent if possible, the very elect will be deceived. I learned this as a new believer 43 years ago and it scared me to the extent I determined to know for myself what the Bible says and determined for myself not to follow anyone who does not get their revelation from the Word. You can only do that if you know what it says. Many people do not know what it says for themselves so how much more of a dumb sheep can you be?
  • Diana Snyder Hester Oops. I just realized I meant to post this under your other topic. Oh well.
  • Matt Stebleton I lead a government accsess prayer team that talks and prayers about this very issue. One issue is we need kingdom minded men and women who are called to get involved in politics. Two we need to pray that the hearts of men turn toward god. Thres seek god for his choices. And their is more but dont want to keep goin on.
  • Diana Snyder Hester Support the fact that there are absolutes and relativism is a street to the same as we have been getting in our society…curruption and lawlessness.
  • Lori Zwirecki Craine I DID NOT BELIEVE THERE WAS RASISM IN THE U.S. TILL THIS ELECTION, SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE MIDDLE AGE WHITE FOLKS WANT TO KEEP THEIR TRADITIONS ALIVE LIKE BEFORE THE 60’S CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THEY WISH TO CONSERVE THEM, AND NOT SEE HOW DIFFERENT TH…See More
  • Joel Thornhill It is of the plan of the left to cause division in all societies when necessary, in order to bring on so called change. The stirring of racism, class warfare is a convenient tool for this. It was the main focal point of this campaign. And guess who won…See More

 

What About The Church Looking To The Media For Leadership

The church today is increasingly looking toward fox news and conservative talk show host as their preachers and teachers while they may be good people yet they are not apostles or prophets but have been given that place by a large portion of the church the result of this is strife and division among God’s people as preachers spend more time watching Fox news then they do in the word.. How can this be turned around?

Answers

David R Huskins well the simple answer is turn off the TV.  I did have the Lord deal with me personally to fast my “channel of choice” during the election because I realized most of the time I wasn’t speaking the mind of the LORD on the matter but the mind of my particular genre of politic. When I pulled aside I heard. I was able to prepare our congregation on what was going to be the end result of the election cycle and to help keep our very diverse congregation from dividing over issues that seem so big in an election cycle but quickly disappear after. I think for me we must again discover this is more an American issue than a CHURCH issue because much of the church don’t get to even vote in it’s government or have free press to choose from…but to those of us who are in the church we must never substitute statistics and analyst for prophecies and prophets as we just learned they can be very wrong from time to time. BUT GOD was right all along.

  • Bonnie Cooper Brown I believe we are also getting alot of WRONG doctrine being taught on facebook!! lol

  • H Scott Stimson This of course is in the USA mostly
  • Denise Parkison the media has always had a strong influence as ‘leaders’ then we should pray more for our leaders and for truth/light. maybe they will try to speak and unknown to them why the truth just starts pouring out
  • Diana Snyder Hester You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 

    14“You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
  • Alan Whitaker The answer’s in your question and it applies to everyone, not just preachers. ” . . . as preachers spend more time watching Fox news then they do in the word.” Turn the tube off . . . “tube” – I just dated myself! What well do we draw our water and drink from?
  • Denise Parkison turning it completely off can make one look unprepared and ignorant. i’m a dietitian and work in dialysis but if i don’t keep up on what’s going on “out there” then its more difficult to explain the truth and steer people away from all the myths and hype that goes on.
  • H Scott Stimson This by the way is question 16 9 more to go..
  • Rocky Walker I have no idea how it can be turned around.
  • Loften Pierce Ooooh! ouch.
  • Jim Taylor We do not get the news here in Mozambique. To find any “news” we either have to search for it online or take what gets passed to us from others. We have elected to stay away from the news and to try and hear Papa God’s updates. 
    When you are away from it for a year or so my experience has been that it is almost sickening to turn it back on. During my last visit to the US a couple years ago I had to leave the room when the “news” was on. 
    Listen to it long enough and you get used to it. Sorta like eating horse poop. Do it long enough you come to almost enjoy it.

  •  

  • Jim Taylor You guys had an election!?
  • Jim Taylor What effect did the American Presidential election have in our part of Africa?
    No real effect. Most people did not know about it or even care. Less than eight percent of the world really thought much about it.

    oops.. hit enter too quick … The situations we are involved in seem quite large at the time… until we get far enough away from them to get a wider perspective.

  • Jim Taylor I believe it would do people a lot of good if they were able to live in a totally foreign culture for a month or so and while there, try to see things through the eyes of the local people.

  • Betty Dooley Turn their TV off and get back to basics. Prayer, walking in faith and Love.

  • Lori Zwirecki Craine WOW FINALLY SOME ONE HAS BROUGHT THIS UP! THANKS!! THE BIGOTRY & BIAS AND HATRED IS POURING OUT FROM THAT AND SO MANY PEOPLE ARE IMMUNED FROM IT THAT THEY CAN’T SEE IT!! IF NOW KINGDOM CHURCH PEOPLE HAVE SUCH A MARKET ON GIVINING UP RELIGIOUS AND TRA…See More
  • Renee Terry · Friends with Wanda C Taff and 1 other

    God has before and will again raise up a pharoh to turn his people back to him. we need to have the spirit if moses.

What About Ministries Who Charge Large Honorariums?

#14 There is an alarming trend that within the church there are well known ministries who bring in multiplied millions especially through books and materials and live very extravagantly way beyond what most could dream of, and some receive up to 50,000 or more for a speaking engagement with other demands, they justify it by saying they paid the price can the church be a voice to this? is it abuse or is it justified?

Answers

  •  David R Huskins I do know of a major ministry who in one of the greatest displays of love I have ever seen personally wrote a check for $3 million dollars in Rwanda back in August so I decided on the spot there that I could see it was not his first time of doing similar things so I realized having millions does not mean one is stingy or corrupt…I don’t want to determine anyone elses salary but sure hope everyone prospers enough to one day give away millions.

  • David R Huskins Me personally I am not willing to judge what another person should or should not make as an income or a honorarium. In a free market society I want to stay away from the side that determines how much someone should or shouldn’t make in any field of career or service. I m not an enemy of wealth and prosperity. I may think something is absurd in figures but my question is not is it abusive to get paid those fees, my question is why are people crazy enough to pay them? Either they have to give or they feel they are getting their moneys worth in return. I say to each his own.

     

  • Djc Csada Oh my???? I wonder how Father must see this… how the Gospel has been exploited for the cause of gain. I know my heart aches at the thought.

    Friday at 9:51am · Edited · Like · 3
  • Dale Carver I would question the wisdom in paying 50000 for a speaking engagement more than a speaker getting 50,000. If he can get it more power to him, but I would question the Pastor motive in getting them. It is God that promotes.

  • Thuthuka Tuks Xulu I so wish some of these ‘super – doopa ministers’ can learn from your humility Sir. I mean, when you came into Africa, South Africa to be exact, you ‘ld stay in our homes as opposed to staying in expensive hotels, eat the same food we ate despite the level of anointing you carry, pay for your travelling expenses, etc. 

    I saw with my own eyes signs of a true apostle being made manifest in our midst [2Cor.12:12], e.g. a guy aged 32 who was dumb from birth regaining his ability to speak, diverse healings taking place; accurate words of knowledge, wisdom and prophesy and so on and so forth. God bless you Sir! Much love and respect to you!

  • Gregg Wilson It is just business. Maybe we should call it like it is. If we are known by a tax status, we still dislike the government getting involved. These contradictions antagonize the soul. Everyone who is ask what they do for a living, should have an answer. Straight up, no bs. I even thinkin o raising my fees (that is a joke folks, about my fees, I don’t have any)I am worth 50k an hour though

  • H Scott Stimson Thuthuka Tuks Xulu God Bless you brother. love ya
  • Thuthuka Tuks Xulu We love you too brother Scott, please do come back pretty soon! We miss and need you BIG TIME!!! I talk about you all the time…
  • Dale Carver Jesse Duplantis came to our place for a love offering. He paid his own expenses, we did take up a great offering filled with love and dollars. He deserved it, he earned it. Try to get a well known athlete or celebrity. You will pay. I like Gregg do not charge but am worth something. I have been to places where I got less than what it cost me to go. God always provide but I do not have any complaints about a preacher charging a certain amount. In fact, I would rather know up front then as Pastor, I can decide if I really want him/her.
    Friday at 9:14am via mobile · Like · 8
  • H Scott Stimson I will be back to S Africa I love it there.
  • Gregg Wilson I know that! Amen Dale
  • Thuthuka Tuks Xulu Nowadays we ‘ve got so many people who claim to be apostles but can’t deliver the goods, it’s all just talt talk [1Cor.4:20]. Thanks once again, Sir, for modelling to me and the rest of us what a true apostle looks like in real life.
  • Jim Taylor Seems to me that the guy who started all this said something about not charging for it .. not to carry along a bunch of clothes .. eat whatever was given you .. stay where ever they allowed you to .. but hey .. that was a long time ago.
  • Gregg Wilson To the status, this is not reparable from only one side. We all too often give money, because someone agrees with what we think we understand. AND, we do it as a habit, even in politics. We’ll vote’em out, or shun’em, by golly. Showing we really do not want to grow. Visiting preachers are alot of times told what to preach on. Ya really, do not be shocked. Can we all just get real. The business of speaking for edification. Nothing wrong with it.
  • Dale Carver There is two things that I have learned about ministry and money: 1. I am not in it for the money, and 2. It is a good thing that I am not in it for the money.
    The big time ministers who makes the big money is few and far between. I have been ministering 23 years. I have met and have relations with some giants and I can honestly say I do not know a one that is corrupt and just after the money. Most like me left good careers to answer the call.
    Friday at 9:31am via mobile · Like · 2
  • Gregg Wilson Hey Jim, that Guy, he made no reputation.
  • Djc Csada Wasn’t it Paul who had to make tents for his own and would profit all…. jusayin
    Friday at 9:34am · Edited · Like · 3
  • Gregg Wilson Yes Dave, AND when asked what he did for a living, Paul said, ” I am a tent maker, servant to the Lord”.
  • Jim Taylor I have been around some “BIGGIES” … one lady – who cannot read or write and couldn’t graduate Bible School because of that – has raised seven people from the dead that I know of. She has no car. She has no radio program. She has no travel agent. In fact, for a long time, she only had dirt for a floor in her house. Her and her husband are giants in the Kingdom.
  • Djc Csada My heart faints within me to hear of such things…. and we who had some come and speak could not seem to get even enough together just to be a blessing, hear the Gospel preached and the man of God continue on there way.
    Friday at 9:39am · Edited · Like · 2
  • Djc Csada Scott I don’t get it, while others have had to sell everything including going into bankruptcy, and continue preaching the good news.
  • Gregg Wilson unwilling to make tents? could it b
  • Thuthuka Tuks Xulu As virtuos as it is for ministers to be self – supporting, it is also biblical for ministry to support the minister [Phil.4:18]. It’s just that some people go way over the limit.
  • Djc Csada @Thuthuka Tuks Xulu I think you nailed it here… appreciate you sir.
  • Thuthuka Tuks Xulu @Djc – thank you kindly Sir. The feeling is mutual.
  • Bishop Frank Zorn I think it is an abuse. Don’t get me wrong a worker is worthy of his wages but so many of these books are ghost written. I was a bivocational minister for 20 years until I became partially disabled in an accident. My family and I have lived by faith for over two years. No welfare, do I get a little frustrated when I see these things and remember our struggles. I tell myself God is just and keep moving forward.
  • Rocky Walker My opinion, bombs away! Ishmael means wild ass could it mean dumb ass, just asking? Who would pay someone 50,000 to speak? Cathy checked one time about a husband and wife team coming to our church to sing, their fee 5000, I heard them sing before, they never came. Church & Ministry is BIG BUSINESS to say the least. The ministers and the churches who are charging and paying these big fees, need to check their relationship with God, however what about the people who are giving to these ministries, (see my definition of Ishmael). Now I know why ministers charge fees, because they have been burnt by pastors, churches, for giving them a tip instead of the offering that came in for them. As a pastor if someone tells me they have to have so much to come, they do not come. However, it is my responsibility to make sure that minister is taken care of and blessed. I will give them everything that comes in their offering, and if it is not enough I will make it up, but that has happened very few times in the history of our church. Place them in a nice hotel, buy their food and fill their car up with fuel. I want to be a blessing to the REAL MEN AND WOMEN OF GOD! The true church wants to give offerings and the true minister wants to come and be an offering.
  • Sandy Bellerose Kuz What has happened to “Freely you received, freely you shall give.”? Are these people walking in faith or not?
  • David R Huskins I personally think we pay entertainers, politicians, CEO’s, athletes and so many others too much but I still buy tickets to see them play, perform, entertain, or speak so I don’t blame them for what they are paid I blame me for continuing to support.
  • David R Huskins I do know of a major ministry who in one of the greatest displays of love I have ever seen personally wrote a check for $3 million dollars in Rwanda back in August so I decided on the spot there that I could see it was not his first time of doing similar things so I realized having millions does not mean one is stingy or corrupt…I don’t want to determine anyone elses salary but sure hope everyone prospers enough to one day give away millions.
  • Todd Weber accountability to Jesus number one (who judges righteously) and the five fold ministry…I would say this would also include the real Apostles and Prophets that are so few and maybe even shunned by many “churches” who would like to become incredibly rich and famous with satellite superstars on platforms
  • Steven Moffett The true church wants to give offerings and the true minister wants to come and be an offering……Pst. Rocky thanks for this JEWEL!
  • H Scott Stimson Rocky and Cathy are good examples of this they live it.
  • Shannon Galon It might seem like a silly thing to most people, but there are a few things I watch specifically for in ministries. One is how they treat the “little people”. The people that pour their coffee, that wait on their table at a restaurant, the way they treat the hosts in the home they are staying in or the hotel staff if they’ve been put up somewhere. It’s very telling of the charachter of a person. This was the very first thing that I noticed with you Pastor Scott, that showed me that you could be trusted, the kind, humble, and gentle way that you dealt with the “little people”. When you work in the same hotel where the church is holding services you KNOW THINGS. The staff never had anything bad to say about you, in fact they looked forward to you coming back.
  • H Scott Stimson Thank you Shannon that means alot..
  • Steven Moffett You’re spot on about Cathy Walker we were honored to have her at our church and she was DOWN TO EARTH and easy to be entreated! Her and Dr. Hiles were a breath of fresh air, absolutely no CHARISMATIC SWAG at all!
  • Shannon Galon You’re very welcome
  • Michael Bush Yes, sadly there is such a greed in the church that twists Gods prosperity and perverts it and has a voice that tells you that Jesus died on the cross to give you a Cadillac! It sickens me to hear that voice.
  • Thuthuka Tuks Xulu @Jim Taylor – I’m responding to your first interjection / comment. 

    What has earned Scott the amount of respect he has amongst us Africans, is the fact that he ‘ld refuse offers to book him in 5 star hotels and ‘ld voluntarily choose to dwell amongst …See More
  • Simon Bull They call it the free market H Scott Stimson. If a speaker is bringing value then the market will suport that value, if not then he will have to reduce his fee.
  • Simon Bull To those to whom much has been given, much will be required. Sitting back and firing shots at successful ministries is probably not the most constructive move. Probably better to “be the change”, admittedly it is harder than making comments.
  • Ava-Jo Holmes · 2 mutual friends

    i was under the impression that christians were not to live by the laws fo the land nearly as much as they are to live by the laws of god…….

How Does The Church Speak to The Issues In The Middle East?

#13 How will the church speak to the situation in the middle east because within us there is a division between those who think the nation of Israel is God’s chosen people and are elevated above other nations, based upon a belief that is being taught and re-enforced constantly through Christian ministries and Christian TV, and then there are those who increasingly think they are a creation of the Rothchilds as history does point out and it is political Zionism to divide the world and distract the church? an issue that is picking up steam.

Answer

David R Huskins To me the question of Israel is not so much Biblical as it is political. The U S should support Israel to an extent when it is reasonable because they are our only somewhat allies in the region and it is smart to have friends in a region of enemies, but to do so blindly as a biblical mandate is dangerous. now to the point of chosen…all who accept Jesus as the Messiah become a Jew in the New Covenant so the debate should never be over geography and who rules a strip of land but rather who governs the heart of the individual. No nation has a blanket unconditional private agreement with God but HIS covenant is with those that honor HIM and individuals within any border can bring blessing on them and their nation by doing

Andrew Kennedy Neither Jew nor Greek…. ? Sarah represents the New Jerusalem which is us, and Hagar the Physical Jerusalem in the middle east. This is really not difficult… We are Israel, we are the city, We are the gates, we are Jerusalem… Praying for all the people whom Jesus came to die for. ALL means all. Jews and Palestines and every country in the world…

Jim Taylor I know of people who minister among the Palestinians … the Christian Palestinians are almost totally ignored by the western church .. seeing things from their eyes gives one a whole different picture.

Joel Thornhill I had learned it this way. The old law(the old testament) represented things out of the physical. It dies and returns to the earth. It has no eternal life in it. But things of the Spirit are represented as the New testament, His divine nature etc… Then why do we concentrate on this new temple being built of stone somewhere in Israel which is nothing but symbolic of things old?

Ronald M. Pillay The true Israel of God is His Church the many membered Body of Christ, not a geographical location in the Middle East- Revelation 21. It’s in the WORD OF GOD (nobody is permitted to argue with that?) God as no favorites, He does not prefer one nation or people over another.

  • Elaine Pigott what is the Rothchild?

  • Joyce Angolo its true the bible say CHOSEN PPLE ARE THEY WHO FEAR HIM AND THEY ARE CALLED BY HIM

  • Diana Snyder Hester Read the Bible and take it quite literally instead of listening to spin preachers and there is no confusion at all.

  • Diana Snyder Hester BTW, it is taught and being reinforced through Christian ministries because it is what the Bible says. I don’t watch Christian television or listen to Christian radio but I totally understand God’s heart toward Israel because it is in the Bible.

  • Diana Snyder Hester God does not lift the promises He spoke over Israel, just because of blindness on their part. God is not a man that He should lie or break covenant with His word and promises. If He did, we would all be screwed

    David R Huskins To me the question of Israel is not so much Biblical as it is political. The U S should support Israel to an extent when it is reasonable because they are our only somewhat allies in the region and it is smart to have friends in a region of enemies, but to do so blindly as a biblical mandate is dangerous. now to the point of chosen…all who accept Jesus as the Messiah become a Jew in the New Covenant so the debate should never be over geography and who rules a strip of land but rather who governs the heart of the individual. No nation has a blanket unconditional private agreement with God but HIS covenant is with those that honor HIM and individuals within any border can bring blessing on them and their nation by doing


  • For God so loved the world……….

What About The Heavy Pressure Being Put On People In Church?

#12 In today society people are under heavy pressure from all sides causing family break up and often neglected children What is the churches responsibility to this and how can we continue with our many programs without robbing families of their precious time.

 

David R Huskins Again for me this is not a church question but a personal question. It is a matter of personal priorities. I am a single parent raising four children at home alone…lead in a church and a group of churches and have a active travel ministry. I also have business interest that helps supply for my sons futures. My marriage didn’t end because of anything to do with the church in fact it could be linked to the educational system as the culprit but I still believe in education. The church has never been anything but a strength to my family and my four sons have all written and testified of that fact. IF my role in church, organizations, business etc. asks of me something that interferes with my family it is not the responsibility of the church, organization, or business to not ask it is my responsibility to say NO I cannot do that at this time. I certainly respect as a leader of a church/business when the congregation or my employees put their family first. It tells me they are getting the message and or the kind of employees I want to have representing my company.

  • Alan Whitaker Hmmm. What is the church’s responsibility for the kids? What is the church’s responsibility for the families? What is the church’s responsibility? What is our responsibility? The last question is rife in life in general. What about the marriage vows? To __ __ __ __ , till death do you part. The co-pastor (the wife) counseled numerous marriages into divorce via the wife. The couples were all active in the church. This was the last organized church I was a part of. My marriage split up polarized what was left of a dwindling church. I was served divorce papers at home group and “conveniently” no one else showed up that night at the hosts home. The hostess was in cahoots with my ex so that only I would be there. I really “felt the love” and enjoyed going to church . . . . . . . . . . <cough>

  • Shannon Galon when we adopted our two youngest kids I stepped aside from all church responsibilities, promising myself it would only be for a year. That was now three years ago, and I have never gone back to it. I still go to church, but God really had to deal with me in that my FIRST ministry is to raise Godly children, that my children and my marriage are my mission field in this season. I think that we all need to examine ourselves, put our own priorities in order. It isn’t the churches job to do that for us, and we can’t blame the church when it all comes apart if we were not keeping our ‘house in order’. However, I will say this, I have taken a lot of flack for this. I am often misunderstood as not being committed and ‘on the fence’ because I refuse to be told when and how often to be there, and what I should volunteer for. I will not sacrifice my family for an institution, and I don’t believe for a second that God would ask me to.

  • David R Huskins I think “personal responsibility” is a term that needs to be rediscovered in every sphere of life.

Should We Meet In A Church Building Or A House?

#11 There is in the church where we have 2 extremes we have the structured traditional church where we hear many times a dynamic leader worship teaching and often times a greater ability to influence communities and we also have home or organic churches where body ministry is more the focus with leaders who organize and teach and the people seem more free to participate then in a structured church,the question is should we just support each other recognizing one another’s functions?

Answers
David R Huskins People are diverse and therefore there are diverse wineskins to minister to people where they are…the key is that neither should see each other as enemies of the other or one as superior to the other. If “churches” kick against home groups or cell bodys they have missed a key element of themselves and if home groups or cell groups form only to kick against “churches” they miss their calling. Both have a purpose and that is to proclaim Christ and engage the people in service to Him so mutual service and respect would be an effective tool for redemption in my opinion.

    • Gregg Wilson To live is Christ, to die is gain. let the dead bury the dead. Sons are seen, ALWAYS honoring their Father, never seeking gain, but living and speaking life

      Thursday at 8:45pm · Unlike · 2

    • Donald Lyndon Holloway I believe so! Ephesians 4:5,6,7. Amplified Bible.
      5 [There is] one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

      6 One God and Father of [us] all, Who is above all [Sovereign over all], pervading all and [living] in [us] all.

      7 Yet grace (God’s unmerited favor) was given to each of us individually [not indiscriminately, but in different ways] in proportion to the measure of Christ’s [rich and bounteous] gift.

      Thursday at 8:46pm · Unlike · 1

    • Bryan Taylor I belive we should recognize and be supportive of another’s functions even if it does not line up with our traditiional way of “doing church.” The leaders of home groups or organic churches are often portrayed as rebellious people who refuse to submit to the authority of a local church pastor. When this question arises, I always hear “we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together.” Are we trying to limit God to the confines of “church walls?” Ive seen many men of God looked down on because they were not part of the Sunday Congregation. But I also see more demonstration in some Home Groups than in the Church Building.
    • Deborah K Ward One body, many members. Each with a function. Press toward the mark… Looking unto the author and finisher of our faith… Simply put more than one way to catch a fish… We must be fishers of men.
    • Gregg Wilson the gathering and the assembling of the gathering are two separate functions. In many cases we just gettin to one of them.
    • Bill Benninghoff Right – the local church is a set of relationships centered around Jesus as Lord. How we choose to meet and what style of leadership we adopt are important questions but we are all the Body of Christ if we are following Jesus as Lord.
    • Jim Taylor I have been the jackass that God has spoken through at times .. I think I will let the others alone and just rejoice that he uses us. Just my opinion.
    • Karen Mc Intosh-Bargiel Yes, yes. Support one another. I have witnessed people who started home groups because they wanted to take a different direction than their Pastor. This causes division. We must be of one mind.